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Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/10 23:35
And how possible is it that it will change in the future? I know there are still plenty of trains and it's still incredible value, but I'd had to cut my night short a few times because the last 5 or 6 trains for the night are nozomi. I think the original reason behind it was nozomi used to cost a lot extra, but now it's practically the same?
by me (guest)  

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 11:58
Why ask why? Appreciate what you have and let it go. Hasn't changed in over 15 years and I doubt it will ever. The Japanese need that service for commuting and traveling and if we can't use it, it's okay with me.
by John B digs Japan rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 12:51
Think the demand from normal fare paying passengers should be pretty high between Tokyo and Shin-Osaka. Hence no deep discount for riding on Nozomi by JR Central.

However JR West offer various attractive regional passes for foreign tourists which can be used on Nozomi westwards from Shin-Osaka.
by CDY (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 13:08
there is a reason for.
The simple reason is that Nozomi is used for business people mainly.

If many tourists are able to the Nozomi with the JR pass, than space is less for the working people.
And often these trains are full with business people.


by justmyday rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 13:29
These are actually sensible reasons I've not seen elsewhere, the usual ones are "there used to be less nozomis and Japan is just slow to change" etc. I take it the Hayabusa/faster Tohoku trains aren't treated like the Nozomi due to far less commuter use?
by Me (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 13:47
Ridership as per Wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen

FY2016 Tokaido 167.72m vs Tohoku 91.09m vs Sanyo 72.53m
by ... (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 14:08
Actually, on the regional JR West Passes that cover long distances, you can in fact take the Nozomi.
by Ken (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 17:42
The Nozomi used to be a much more exclusive train than it is now. Reservations were mandatory, the price difference was larger and there were much fewer trains. So, it was not difficult to understand why it was excluded for rail pass users. Furthermore, the pass was created in an era when there were not many foreign visitors yet. As a result, the cost of the pass was set at a cost that these days would be absolutely unthinkable. It is not surprising that JR wasn't eager to extend the validity of the pass even when the Nozomi became a "more normal" train.

Recently, a funny phenomena has developed though: because of the huge increase of tourists, the Hikari trains have become very crowded (which especially consumers in Shizuoka are not very happy about). It could actually be a main motivation behind revising the Japan Rail Pass sometime in the next few years.
by Uji rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 17:51
there is no reason to discriminate Japanese and foreigners.
you can get some discount and some disadvantage simultaneously. it is fully acceptable.
by ken (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 19:51
I've used the Nozomi service quite a few times with JR West regional passes, but always non-reserved.
by John B digs Japan rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/11 20:30
I bought the JR Sanyo Sanin pass for my trip upcoming November, and I'll use the Nozomi from Shin-Osaka to Hiroshima. So it seems that the normal JR pass doesn't allow for a Nozomi ride but regional passes does. It depends on what you want really. I see no problem riding Hikari if I had no access to Nozomi. It's the rules and we must respect, besides, the railway system in Japan is already amazing and we should be greatful to have a great transportation system to travel within Japan.
by catiasmteixeira rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/12 08:22
The reason is not really covered in the above answers and has to do with history and the breakup of JNR (Japan National Railways - 1987 seems a long time ago now) - based on my research into this question.
Ages ago, when the Japan rail pass was first introduced the fastest train on the Tokaido shinkansen line was the Hiraki Super Express. The JRP and the six regional companies have various measures to share the revenue from the rail pass among themselves - especially as the Tokyo to Hakata trip passes through JR East, Central and West
Later the Nozomi services were introduced and the people at the time (for whatever reason) decided not to extend the coverage of the pass to cover the new train service (or the Mizuho services). There may have been a reason, but with lots of Hikari services and few tourists, it probably wasn't a big deal. And they possibly didn't want to re-negotiate the revenue sharing agreement - that would have been complex.
Over time there have been more Nozomi and less Hikari/Kodama trains - that's over a time-frame like the last 20 years.
Looking at JREast, the pass works for their Hayabusa trains (certainly faster then the Nozomi services), but they didn't have to do any revenue allocation/sharing as the services used to be all within the JR East area. It is more complex now with the shinkansen link to Hokkaido so fortunately inertia leaves those trains covered by the national pass (plus it would be difficult to exclude because of the Hayabusa services to/from Hokkaido).
by JapanCustomTours rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/13 09:56
I am a Japanese travel fan and I would like to show my personal opinion.

In Japan, the train travel is very expensive as compared to that in Europe. For example, Paris to Amsterdam by Thalys is only 35 euro if you book early (maybe 2 months in advance). Tokyo to Shin-Osaka is about the same distance and the price is more than 100 euro even if you book in advance. In general, the price of many things are more expensive in Europe than in Japan, but the train travel by Shinkansen is one exception. I think this is due the government policy: In Europe (I donft know it can be applied to all countries in Europe), government pays substantial money for the train (maybe basically of the rails) but in Japan, government pays less money for train systems after the JR was privatized. Therefore, to increase foreign tourists, the government decided (I think) to introduce Japan Rail Pass system.

At this time, Japan Rail Pass does not have black-out dates. Tokaido Shinkansen is surely for business, but the busiest dates such as new year days, Obon days and the Golden week are for tourists. Japan Rail have some discount tickets for Japanese such as gFull-moon passh for elderly couple (including homo-sexual these days), but this pass has black-out days (entire summer season and the busiest days as written above). In this meaning, foreign tourists are allowed huge freedom as compared to Japanese locals. This is because of the government policy to increase foreign tourists.

According to this article, the number of Japan Rail pass issued in 2016 was around 800 thousands.
https://tabiris.com/archives/japanrailpass/

Due to the increase of foreign tourists these years, it might be around 1 million per year. If all the pssses holders use the pass twice for the Tokyo to Kansai leg, 2 million foreign tourists should use the pass to take Shinkansen per year. This is not so many as compared to the total foreign tourists coming to Japan (about 30 million). Because many are from east Asia (Korea, China etc.) and you can come to Japan very cheaply and if you want, you can come to Japan simultaneously quite easily.
If Japan want to earn money from foreign tourists, long-term tourists using Japan Rail Pass are welcomed. So it is not a bad idea to give them some more insentive, such as Nozomi on Tokaido Shinkansen.

Tourists using Tokaido Shinkansen are 165 million which is about 100 times more than the estimated JR pass holders using this line.

http://company.jr-central.co.jp/company/achievement/financeandtranspor...

So it would have not so much impact of the congestion. In most days Tokaido Shinkansen has vacant seats in Nozomi as well as slower Hikari and Kodama. As for black-out days, I donft think it is necessary for the JR pass holders. In very busy dates, the seat will rapidly be sold out and most of the JR pass holders can not take it even it is open for the holders. One problem is multiple and un-used booked seats. At present there is no penalty for these, so I have heard some JR pass holders do this. The JR companies can not sell these seats to other people which is problematic. Multiple booking at one time at the ticket booth will take time which is also a problem.

Therefore, my idea is:
Open Nozomi to JR pass holders.
Small gbooking feeh for each booking.
by frog1954 rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/13 10:34
To be fair, I remember in 2001 buying a British Rail Pass and being completely frustrated by it in comparison with the JR Pass. In Japan, you are getting an actual bargain because as @Frog1954 pointed out. But the BriRail pass uses inflated prices based on buying train tickets day of, to show you how much money you save. British trains also didn't have non-reserved cars, so when our Euro-star arrived late, we missed our connection to Edinburgh and had to play musical chairs the whole 5 hour trip as we could take any train we wanted but had no guarantees of seats. The Japan Rail Pass seems so much better in comparison and I admit, I spent most of my time in the UK comparing its public transit unfavorably with Japan's.

Since I got my first pass in 1999, I do remember that Hikaris use to be a lot more frequent, but 1999 was a really long time ago.

Personally, I'm more curious what will happen when the shinkansen connects Kanazawa and Kyoto/Osaka. While that route won't be as fast as the Tokkaido line, it does have some really great places to stop on the way. We did Osaka to Kanazawa, then on to Matsumoto and then went back to Nagano, before arriving in Tokyo.
by rkold rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/13 12:35


iOpen Nozomi to JR pass holders.

It will be, in the future, but not very soon.
by . (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/13 14:03
@rkold - what do you think will be the situation with the JR pass and Chuo shinkansen?
by guest (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/13 14:16
Doesn't really matter why, does it? No foreign tourist has any input on the decision process. The terms of the passes are very clearly defined at point of sale. I'm just happy the passes are available and the train system is so excellent. It makes visiting Japan a breeze compared to many other destinations.
by JB25 (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/13 21:35
Chuo shinkansen? Haha
by hakata14 (guest) rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/13 23:14
The Chuo shinkansen will only open in a few years yet. But I think it will greatly help the Tokaido shinkansen (it's too crowded nowadays). Besides, the Chuo shinkansen will allow people to travel to Nara via shinkansen line at last.

As for JR pass holders, I think the situation will be the same as of now with other shinkansen lines. I doubt Nozomi and Mizuho will be available for JR pass holders (not regional) in the upcoming years, it's not impossible, but not for now.

I don't mind traveling Hikari or Sakura, but I agree that Nozomi trains are more regular than the others. I've been checking Hyperdia for my traveling through the Sanyo shinkansen, and most of the times, it's only Nozomi that's available because they have more frequent trains than the others. Gladly I bought the JR west sanyo pass and I will be able to ride the Nozomi, but for JR pass holders this might be a disadvangate (But I will keep saying that Japan has one of the best railway systems in Japan, waiting a bit longer for a Hikari or Sakura train won't hurt...but avoid Kodama as it stops at every station in the shinkansen line).
by catiasmteixeira rate this post as useful

Re: Reasoning behind no Nozomi on the JR pass? 2018/10/13 23:17
I wrote the phrase wrong:

*But I will keep saying that Japan has one of the best railway systems in the World.
by catiasmteixeira rate this post as useful

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