Iinerary 1st Timer

OK Flights the are booked. Me & my teenage daughter are very excited.

Arrive Tokyo HND July 27 & Depart Osaka 16th Aug.
After lots of googling have come up with the following - comments, ideas, changes all appreciated.

looking at the following iternary:

8 Days Tokyo - Doing the normal tourist stuff I guess, shopping, skytree, boat trip, shrines, gardens,Hakone day trip, enoshima trip - which seem to be covered by their own travel passes.
1 Days Matsumoto - crows castle, - up early to catch train for Alpine route, if weather or mood says no then train to Kanazawa - we would be doing Alpine Route on a sunday is there a reduced service at all? Dont want to miss the last train or bus!
4 days Kanazawa - beaches, gardens, shopping, hopefully a bit quieter than tokyo - recharge - chill out a little, probably hire a car for a few days.
8 days Osaka\Kyoto - shrines, culture, Usual suspects of Kinkakuji, Bamboo forest, Fushimi inari, Osaka aquarium, Nara?,more shopping,
Need some advice for Osaka\Kyoto and best area to stay, we are flying out from here so is it best to be closer to Airport?

Some ideas for hotels be appreciated in the locations also looking for a couple of nights in a roykan any suggestions.

I am not planning on buying a JR rail pass as I just don't think its worth it for us.
Tokyo going to by a Subway pass and for the longer journeys will just pay for adhoc.
Hoping some sort of pass exists for Osaka & Kyoto - any advice appreciated.
Best way to buy Bullet Train tickets in advance?

Many Thanks.

Hi!

I'm sure you know this by now, but it shall be quite hot and humid when you are in Japan. I'm from the US and I regularly go to Florida, (it also gets surprisingly hot and humid where I live over the Summer) so I'm not terribly bothered by it, but I've noticed people from Europe seem to find it a bit overwhelming.

My child is younger than yours, but I go to Japan just the two of us, and I enjoy it immensely. :) I'm hoping it will give her some rather special memories.

I didn't end up staying in them, but there are lot of ryokans just a few kilometers outside of Matsumoto. It might not be so hard to add in a stay there. You could also overnight in Hakone or Enoshima. I know @Lazy Pious loves a ryokan in Enoshima. I've stayed several times in Hakone, but the most interesting place I've stayed is temporarily closed. I'm not a particular huge Hakone fan, but it might be a bit cooler than Tokyo. I've been in mid June when the hydrangeas are gorgeous.

Another possible place to stay in a ryokan would be in Kanazawa, particularly if you rent a car. There is a whole travel report on this website about visiting Kaga onsen which is not too far from Kanazawa. I personally love Kanazawa (and Matsumoto.) They were two favorites from my last trip.

I believe you're traveling during a vacation time for the Japanese so rates might be a bit high. I don't think you should have a problem with transport on Sundays outside of crowds.

I think you'll only be taking the shinkansen between Toyama and Kanazawa , and I wouldn't worry about tickets since you can always get one for the Tsurugi which pretty much just shuttles between Toyama and Kanazawa. I don't expect you will have a problem buying the tickets once you get to Japan. (You don't need a shinkansen to Hakone, you can take Odakyu. You would take a Limited Express from Tokyo to Matsumoto, another Limited Express or local to Shinano-Omachi and the starts to the Alpine Route none of which is covered by JR or is a shinkansen, from Kanazawa to Kyoto you take another Limited Express and then you can take a Limited Express direct to Kansai Airport.)

I personally like staying in Kyoto more, but it really depends on what you want to do. There is a direct Limited Express (the JR Haruka) between Kyoto Station and KIX. Where is a nice place to stay really depends on your budget. I guess I would look into the new Mitsui Kyoto Station to see if they have a special on rooms. I think they're opening in July, and generally new hotels tend to have special rates to encourage booking. Over the last 3 years I've tried several hotels in Kyoto, several of which were built during that time period. The only one I wouldn't stay in again in the Intergate Kyoto. The staff, location, and room were lovely, but I personally found the bed very hard and I had difficulty sleeping. If you like hard beds you might like it.

I'm not sure you actually need a pass for Kyoto or Osaka. It would really depend on where you are taking day trips to. If you're just going between the two and Nara you are better off with a Suica card. If you do enough buses in Kyoto the bus pass is a good deal.

If you like you could throw in an overnight someplace like Hikone or Nara in your 8 days in Kansai or possibly look into Koya-san depending on your interests.

Enjoy!

You are right that the full JR Pass would not pay off for you.
And as mentioned, your timing is the worst of summer. Getting to the mountains a lot would be a good idea. As a day trip from Tokyo, you should also consider Nikko. Tokyo has a lot going for it, but about 4 days are enough.
https://goo.gl/qyQtGV
If you want to rent a car around Kanazawa, then the Noto Peninsula would be one good place to go. You could also go to Fukui - the Tojinbo Cliffs are quite a sight. Or in Katsuyama is the Echizen Great Buddha - it's like going to Nara but having the whole place to yourself!
https://goo.gl/MkGZYp
For your 8 days in Kansai, as said, no pass would work for you. But if you expand it a bit, such as a half or a full day trip to Himeji, then a Kansai Area Pass would save some money.
https://goo.gl/65ZtRi
You don't need a hotel near the airport - actually KIX is close to an hour away from Osaka. I'd only suggest a hotel near the airport on your last night if you have an early morning flight leaving Japan. If you want some cheap hotels in Kyoto, look at several near the Karasuma subway station - there are many, and they are centrally located. I got a cheap en suite single room there for about US$ 50 a night. After the temples of Kyoto close down around 5 PM, you can zip over to Osaka for the evening. At night the city comes alive and has some great places to see, such as Dotonbori and Shinsekai, plus the night views from the Umeda Sky Bldg and Abeno Harukas Bldg are wonderful.
On another evening, you could also go and see Kobe.
http://goo.gl/XE5R94
And definitely do not skip Nara. It has some of Japan's best, especially in Nara Park.
https://goo.gl/LfvWnL

Thanks for the replies.
It has been said before that it's the going to be hot & humid. As I am from the UK it's going to be different, and may be a struggle but I have no choice with school holidays so it's this year or when I am even older.
Not sure if I could get away with 4 days in Tokyo as daughter has a few things lined up. But I can still tweak the schedule to alter days.
Some really useful things for me to think on. My rationale for going over to Kanazawa was to hopefully for it to be a little cooler and less busy so hopefully that will pay off.
Looks like a car and a roykan in Kanazawa is going to be a good call.
One quick question about Alpine Route & Kanazawa - what will the temp range be - will I be ok in shorts & t-shirt or need something warmer?

I also like the idea of being closer to Osaka as the evenings are then not wasted after the temples close in Kyoto.

Many thanks again

If the heat is a concern you can go to Tohoku and Hokkaido instead of central Japan. (Or obviously choose some other school vacation).

I guess it really depends how heat resistant you and your daughter are. For me ( German) the period of time you say is a total no-go. Temperature doesnft look so high at maybe 31C but itfs the humidity that kills me. I was in Tokyo (for work) last year all August and although it would have been a nice 10 min walk from my apartment to my office I took the subway every morning to avoid getting cooked.

In previous years I took PTO at end July and we spent 10 days in Hokkaido and that was nicely summerly warm, but below boiling.

It depends if in Europe you can go to central Italy in August for tourism then youfll be fine in Japan as well. Note that central Spain, even if it gets up to 40 C is (for me ) much more bearable because itfs dry.

Kanazawa wonft be cooler than Tokyo and Kyoto will be probably the hottest of all. The Alpine Route on the top of the mountain might just be slightly cooler. Ifll leave it to @rkold to give you a temperature. But I think Ifm general youfll need a cardigan for air conditioned rooms sometimes. But I canft see that youfll need a jacket anywhere.

Enjoy your trip to Japan!

I've been to Japan early August and it was indeed very humid and hot then. Bring a fan and an umbrella and wear loose cotton clothes.
Best area to stay in is Namba in Osaka as you have tons of restaurants and shopping at your doorstep. However, you can choose to stay in the Umeda area since trains to Kyoto can be had there. There are tons of shops and restaurants there too. No use choosing a hotel near Kansai airport in Osaka as it is too far from Osaka downtown.
I like staying near the Karasuma station in Kyoto as this allows me to go on the train straight to Osaka and a lot of the buses that ply Kyoto have stops around this area.

Hi!

I totally get needing to go when you need to go. We go mid-late June until early July because that works with my daughter's school schedule. Lots of people will say it's hot and humid and rainy and miserable, but I actually don't mind too much. I think the worst part is the airfare tends to be high then. Honestly, for your time period I think the worst thing is it's break time in Japan so accommodations might be more expensive, but the Pound is stronger than the Dollar which is stronger than the Yen, so it is what it is.

Kanazawa will still be hot, but I think it will be less crowded. Kanazawa certainly felt less crowded than Namba last June. I seem to remember Kanazawa feeling a little cooler in the evening once the sun went down more so than Kyoto or Tokyo or Osaka. I imagine Tojimbo will still be hot as well. I went in November to Fukui a really long time ago. I honestly remember the squid ink ice cream more than Tojimbo itself. If you eat ice cream, Kanazawa will have a lot, some quite photogenic with the gold and platinum leaf. I've not done the Alpine Route... It doesn't really appeal to me. However I went to Kamikochi in late June last year. It rained and I was freezing. We were in long sleeves and a jacket and leggings. I don't know what temperature it was, but it was cold! I do think the rain made it worse. I suspect you will need a light jacket for the Alpine Route, even in Summer. This is the official webpage: https://www.alpen-route.com/en/

I personally find 20 C when you are use to 32 C feels very chilly. While right now 20 C feels positively balmy since it's been 10-13 recently. It sort of depends on what temperature you're coming from.

I found Nikko sweltering still when I went in August 2000. Kurama near Kyoto could be cooler? I went in April. I went to Enryakuji in late June in 2010 but I don't remember how hot it was. It's also possible Ohara is a little cooler? I've not been though we might go in June.

For accommodations I don't know your price range but will mention a few places and things I've noticed. I find price wise the mid range hotels cost more in Osaka than in Kyoto, Kyoto has a lot more well priced 3 star hotels with slightly larger rooms than Osaka. If you're looking for hostels, I think prices are better in Osaka. In Kyoto, I loved the Hana Touro Hotel near Yasaka jinja. It was right near a Keihan and a Hankyu station. I also like the Royal Park Sanjo. It was quite convenient. I'm trying the Vischio this time and there is a new Mitsui opening near Kyoto Station. I've not stayed there, but I do like the Mitsui chain after trying to the Otemachi branch in Tokyo, which I would recommend. I won't use an APA.

If you have the time in Kansai, you could go to Wakayama-ken. There are beaches in Shirahama and Tanabe that are quite pleasant. The mountains could be cooler, the same with parts of Nara-ken. It rained when I was in Nara last so it was quite chilly. We're trying the Sakurai area this trip and I can let you know if it is very hot when we are there. There is a direct airport Limo bus from Wakayama station to KIX or it's a not so bad trip by train. Wakayama is actually a little closer to KIX than even Osaka. There are lots of onsen in the Kii mountains.

I would make sure all hotel rooms you book are an actual double or twin. My daughter is younger than yours, but I still would not want to share a single with her, it'd be awful tight, both in the room and in the bed!

Good luck!

Bit of help required.
Changed itinerary a little no overnight stop in Matusmoto, going to stay extra night in Tokyo, Alpine Pass has been canned, I think it was too much, may regret it but can't do everything in one visit and it's one less hotel change.
So going to stop off at Matsumoto on way to Kanazawa to see Crows Castle & a brief wander about before going onto Kanazawa.
Looking at Hyperdia it's a Shinkasen to Kanazawa, and 10000yen each (about £70 each), considering hiring car in Matusmoto & driving to Kanazawa, as planning on car hire in Kanazawa anyway . I have never driven in Japan, but at least steering wheel is in right place for me coming UK. Bit concerned about my first driving experience in Japan will be a 200km journey! Is that a wise decision?
So need some reputable car hire companies (if they exist) only Booking.com coming up with car from Matsumoto available. and picking up on a Sunday seems to be limiting my options.

Also the Roykans I was wanting to stay at in Kanazawa are fully booked or just did not work out so now going to look at Kyoto - was looking to pay about 25000-35000yen any recommendations.

Regarding driving in Japan, itfs easy but quite slow. Speed limits are low and streets in the cities often small (well, except the big passing streets). Youfll also need to pay for highway tolls and parking in many places (not in rural areas though). Drop off fees apply when renting in Matsumoto but handing the car back in Kanazawa.

I have ever only rented cars at Toyota rental car (they also have an English webpage where you can reserve). But there are several others like Nissan, Orix, Times. They are all reputable.

Not sure what type of driving license in Japan you need. As a German I needed a translation from an official Japanese body which took a day or so to obtain in Tokyo.

If you decide to drive I would honestly make some stop overs using the fact that you can go more easily to remote areas. My first stop would be In a ons n I n Okuhida region. (Eg somewhere around Hirayu onsen in the mountains), then next day I would visit Takayama (not a big fan of Takayama myself, but still, you are passing through) and either stay in Takayama, told go back to your onsen or go forward to Ainokura and spend the night there. In any case Ifd skip Shirakawa totally and head to Ainokura (and maybe Gokayama) for the Gassho village experience. And then finally continue down to Kanazawa. From where you can do day trip to the nearby peninsula before handing back the car.

Within Kanazawa you wonft need a car, but for the surroundings a car will be convenient.

Enjoy your trip to Japan!

Hi!

I think the biggest issue with a car is the drop off fees. You'll be looking at least 10,000 yen in drop-off fees since Kanazawa is in Ishikawa-ken and Matsumoto is in Nagano-ken. One idea depending on your route if you are looking to save some money and don't mind a slightly slower route is take the bus from Shinjuku to Matsumoto.

http://www.alpico.co.jp/access/ticket/pdf/panf701[1].pdf

If you'd prefer the train to Matsumoto, you can still do the bus from Matsumoto to Kanazawa. And while it is 11,000 yen total for both of you. I think a rental car from Matsumoto to Kanazawa is going to be at least that much, if not a lot more, when you include the cost of the rental, any tolls, gas, and drop-off fees. If you're not in a rush to get to Matsumoto from Tokyo you can add it on for 6600 yen additional for both of you.

Places with a possible ryokan stay would include Matsumoto, Hirayu onsen, the Okuhida area and Takayama and possibly somewhere you like in Kanazawa is now available. From Hirayu you would need to pay additional for a bus to the rest of the Okuhida area. From Hirayu onsen you can easily day trip to Kamikochi which will definitely be cooler (though probably popular) I've only day tripped to Hirayu from Takayama (and loved it) but I believe @LikeBike has overnighted there and also liked it.

While I like Kyoto I would probably subtract a day or two from it and spend more time on the 3 star route. Hirayu should be cooler as should the Okuhida region.

Good luck!

I have not stayed here but this place is highly rated on Rakuten and Booking and has a private in room onsen.

https://travel.rakuten.com/hotel/Japan-Gifu_Prefecture-Takayama-Takumi...

The price is considerably lower on Rakuten than on Booking. It's on the high end of your price range, but it looks lovely. Rakuten is a great website and sometimes is better when looking for places to stay. It's 7 minutes walk from Hirayu onsen bus stop which would be included on the 3 Star bus route.

Good luck!

Yes, as rkold remembers I stayed at Hirayu onsen. Sitting out a typhoon before continuing on my trip through Japan.

http://bicycletraveljapan.blogspot.com/2017/10/day-31-hirayu-onsen-in-...

I stayed here:
http://www.hirayunomori.co.jp/
And it was actually quite good value. Simple room w/o bath but nice tatami room and good dinner. And those rotenburo!!! Total soaking bliss.

If I had had a car, I would have gone to a more remote place , but as this is right by the bus stop it was ideal ( the one rkold suggests is also very close).

I normally book hotels in Japan through Jalan webpage, but I donft know if their English page has the same offers as the Japanese. (Although I think this one specifically I booked by phone).

@LikeBike, I try to remember advice and opinions of other people who post here frequently because I appreciate reading everyone's thoughts. :)

I actually day tripped to Hirayu no Mori back in February 2010. The onsen there were spectacular. I didn't stay overnight.

Hirayu onsen is a good place for catching buses to the rest of the Okuhida region: https://www.nouhibus.co.jp/route_bus/shinhotaka-line-en/

You could also take a bus to Norikura which again has a large portion closed to cars. It's one of those places mostly open in the Summer and should be much cooler.

https://www.nouhibus.co.jp/route_bus/norikura-line-en/

The bus stop atop Norikura is as high as the Alpine route and considerably cheaper since it is just 6000 yen round trip from Hirayu for both of you.

Hirayu is just a really great stop off if you have the time to explore things because it has several routes that leave from it to places where cars are not allowed.

Sometimes, it's nice in the Summer to specifically visit the places that are harder to visit in the Winter.

Many thanks for all the advice, all hotels now booked. A few changes from original plan.
Roykan booked in Kyoto, and a hotel near Karasuma for rail connections.
Car hire in Kanazawa, daughter did not fancy being navigator from Matsumoto.

Hard work this holiday planning. I am still apprehensive about navigating the rail network and buying tickets in advance for the bullet train link we have. I think a travel pass for Tokyo is a winner not sure which one yet, bit concerned about how to book Bullet train tickets if someone can give me the idiots guide be appreciated.

My biggest issue at the moment is down to clothes, I need some clothing advice for my daughter, I have said cover up as the short skirt, low cut tops are not appropriate in Japan especially going in and out of shrines. So I need some advice on what is appropriate dress as she's being stubborn just like a teenager.
Also is it ok to go barefoot into shrines and places where you need to remove outside shoes? If we are wearing sandals?

Cheers

Let me try some answers:
-sandals: no problem. I wear them all the time and many other tourist too. You need to take them off before getting into buildings where there is a no shoe policy. If you donft want to walk around barefooted you could simply bring some small socks, but bear footed is fine.
-dress code: well Japanese women (and girls) are even in holidays much more formally dressed than most people in EU. But your daughter is not Japanese. There is no rule like for churches that you need to cover up. So essentially even in a shrine/temple she can wear what she wants. (If you want to tell her something else, thatfs obviously fine with me :-)
-navigator: most (all?) rental cars come with a navigator installed. And the clerk can set it fit you to English. So if you want to change your car reservation you might be still in time.
-rail network: google maps has you covered there. Yes, there are other apps (hyperdia) but frankly google maps for rail rides is all you need. Bus rides in more remote locations is a different story.
-Shinkansen ticket: two easy ways: go to a big station like Osaka Nanba or Shin Osaka (or even a very small JR Station (I bought one at Gojo station a few weeks ago and it was a masterpiece in learning Japanese work ethics at work: http://bicycletraveljapan.blogspot.com/2019/05/gw-2019-day-6-yamatoyag... ) and buy it from a clerk. The ones at the big stations speak enough English to understand what you want.
OR buy it from an automatic machine at a JR station. You can switch it to English.
Ian sureon YouTube there are tutorials out there, but if you donft do it last minute itfs not complicated. Normally you just need to wait like 1 min for a machine to be free.

Well apart from that, I can only say, Enjoy!

Just in terms of what your daughter is wearing, it's going to be really hot, as others have said. If she (or you) are concerned about her getting sunburnt, it's useful to have a light something (summer scarf, long sleeved shirt) to throw on during the heat of the day. You can buy sleeves/gloves that you will see young women wearing to cover up while they are outside. Sun parasols are around if you want to carry them.

Also take lots of your preferred sunscreen, and hats.

Have a wonderful time.