Kanazawa, Takayama and Shirakawa-go

Hello

We are travelling from Matsumoto to Takayama after half day siteseeing. We will stay the night in Takayama and are planning to visit locl sites as well as Shirakawa-go. In the evening we plan to go to Kanazawa and spend the night there. Is possible?

Thank you.

Thats doable but in which season? The are gets quite a lot of snow in the winter with possible transportation suspensions.

Matsumoto to Takayama? Stay the night? Next day, Takayama to Kanazawa via Shiragawako?

Many have done it that way if my before. Rushed but doable.

Bus would be best for Takayama -> Shirakawago -> Kanazawa:
https://www.japan-guide.com/bus/shirakawago.html

Day 1 Tokyo
Day 2 Tokyo or Nikko
Day 3 Tokyo
Day 4 Mt Fuji
Day 5 Tokyo
Day 6 Matsumoto
Day 7 Takayama and Shirakawa-go
Day 8 Kanazawa
Day 9 Nara
Day 10 Kyoto
Day 11 Kyoto
Day 12 Kyoto
Day 13 hemji/kobe
Day 14 Hiroshima/mijaya
Day 15 Osaka
Day 16 Universal
Day 17 Fly Back

This is our tentative plan. Would it be worth getting a JR pass?

Not really worth a nation wide pass. As Matsumoto to Kanazawa will be by bus. So you only need to pay for a train, Tokyo to Matsumoto and Kanazawa to Kyoto.

For your last five days. a JR Kansai-Hiroshima pass makes sense for 13,500 yen. Normally a shinkansen from Kyoto/Osaka to Hiroshima and back is 10,000 yen. So add in all you little travels like Miyajima and the airport. And it well and truly pays off.

https://www.westjr.co.jp/global/en/ticket/pass/kansai_hiroshima/

So you saying we should get a normal ticket for the following passages?
Tokyo to Mt Fuji
Tokyo to Matsumoto
Matsumoto to Takayama via Tayama
Kanazawa to Nara
Nara to Kyoto
Kyoto to Hiroshima
Hiroshima to Osaka

for the above journeys, we need separate tickets? would they not be expensive?

So you saying we should get a normal ticket for the following passages?
Tokyo to Mt Fuji
Tokyo to Matsumoto
Matsumoto to Takayama via Tayama
Kanazawa to Nara
Nara to Kyoto
Kyoto to Hiroshima
Hiroshima to Osaka

for the above journeys, we need separate tickets? would they not be expensive?

Toyko to Mt Fuji is cheaper using a bus, not a JR train.\

Again, Matsumoto to Kanazaw via Takayama is cheaper and quicker using a bus, not a JR train.

So you would need to pay for Tokyo to Matsumoto, around 6,500 yen. And Kanazawa to Nara, around 8,500 yen.

Not worth buyin a 14 day 46,XXX pass for.

So 6500 + 8500 + 13500 yen = 28500 yen. much cheaper than 46,XXX yen.

The bus to and from Mt Fuji is about 3000-3500 yen. And no idea what Matsumoto to Kawazawa is by bus.

But you cannot access Shirakawago or Mt Fuji by JR services. So if you purchase a 46,XXX yen pass. You still need to pay some more on top of that to access those two locations.

I am a bit confused now :)
We are a family of 3 and will be travelling around cherry blossom time. All we were told is to get the JR Pass and we would be good...

Fairly common misinformation passed around travel agencies about the JR nationwide passes.

But the only cover JR services. While that is around 85% of the country. You still need to pay to access the other 15% of the country.

I think what @hakata14 is trying to tell you is that there are also other passes besides the nationwide pass. She/He specially proposes one for you Kyoto -Hiroshima leg

There is a summary of many of the available passes on this webpage. Check it out. And remember that in Japan there are different train companies. So the JR nationwide pass is only valid on JR trains (and there are some exceptions to some Shinkansen). Many trains are JR trains but not all.

Enjoy planning your trip to Japan!

Thank you. It looks like the pass is only valid for 5 days. So it would not work for us. Are there any other passes that we can look into?

Yes, that pass is only for five days, but it will cover the long term travel in your Kyoto > Hiroshima > Osaka leg. It is not meant to cover your whole trip!

Takayama and Shirakawago in the same day is too rushed, in my opinion. Barely any time in Takayama.

The cost of getting around once a person gets to Japan is one of the most under-recognized aspects of traveling there. People budget thousands of dollars (or the equivalent in other currencies) for airfare, hotels, lodging, meals, shopping, and venue admissions, and then freak out when they discover that they may have to spend several hundred dollars to get from place to place, even though they have an itinerary that involves considerable long-distance travel. For some reason it doesn't occur to people that high-speed trains are not particularly cheap, or that the transportation network isn't a seamless operation run by a single company. Rail passes can be provide amazing cost-savings if you use them to maximum advantage, but they are not always the best solution.

You need to look at the available passes, do cost calculations, be willing to tweak your itinerary to get particular value out of a given pass, accept that no matter what pass (or combination of passes) you get there will still be some out-of-pocket costs for individual tickets or IC cards, and recognize that rail passes have some advantages and disadvantages that go beyond a strict cost-saving basis. And unfortunately, you need to be willing to spend a LOT of time figuring it all out. There are no simple answers. People on these forums love to proclaim how "easy" it is to travel on Japan on a do-it-yourself basis. Ha!

Here is the Japan Guide page on rail passes:
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2357.html
You have to go into many of the sub-pages to find the information on passes that might work for you, and you need to carefully study the information on how to get to and around the places you are going to. Recognize that some means of transportation can be much faster than others, and that in many places the trains and/or buses do not run very frequently. Learn how to look up schedules on Hyperdia and other sources as needed. Figure these things out before you make any final rail pass decisions...

In my experience, the best way to plan a trip to Japan that makes good use of rail passes is to integrate transportation into your decision making from the beginning, rather than coming up with a fixed list of destinations and dates and then try to find a rail pass that works for it. Why so many people advise you to figure out your entire itinerary first and then find a rail pass to match is beyond me. Ideally it is an iterative process, I believe.

If you have more money than time, the simplest solution is to go ahead and get a nationwide JR pass. (It will also get you to Nikko and part of the way to "Mt. Fuji" if you choose routes that involve JR, and there are some benefits beyond cost savings.) But if you want to find the absolute least-cost solution, then you need to do more research.

So this post isn't really going to help you much, but the point is simply that you need to spend more time figuring this out. There doesn't appear to be an obvious easy solution in your case. Just take a few deep breaths, don't panic, and do be patient. You have time before cherry blossom season (although don't wait TOO long to book hotels for that time frame), so don't let all this become a nightmare. You can keep coming back to the forum for advice on specific questions, but in the end you are basically on your own to figure out what works best for you.

As an example of how transportation might change some decision making, if it were me I would consider dropping Matsumoto, and then go to Takayama via JR. (For Matsumoto to Takayama it is definitely more efficient to take a bus.) However, not knowing why you want to go to Matsumoto, and exactly how important it is to you, I'm certainly not suggesting that you do this! It's just that when I'm scoping out at a full-trip itinerary, I inevitably "give up" on one or more places I sort of wanted to visit, because they are not compatible with a given rail pass that would otherwise be a good fit. On the other hand, sometimes I add destinations that I hadn't originally thought of, because they are logical places to go if I buy a particular rail pass. (For example, I might stop in Nagano and do something there, instead of Matsumoto, and then take JR to Takamatsu via Toyama--a bit time-consuming but a very lovely train ride). I'm not saying you should do that; it's just an example. My thinking is kind of like this: "Where can I go with this rail pass, if I buy it," rather than "Here's where I am going; what rail pass should I buy?"

For what it's worth, I usually get at least twice face value out of rail passes that I buy. Once I'm seriously considering a particular pass, I start thinking about how I could maximize the value. And I tend to try to minimize hotel changes, instead favoring more day trips, which tend to make rail passes shine. But those are just my own personal preferences. Everybody's different.

Exactly. As there are considerable savings in utilising a regional rail pass (or a combination of rail passes), it is better to plan your itinerary within the limitations of the various passes.

Unfortunately, the area of Japan in question is one of the trickiest in terms of trying to figure out the best rail passes (and other options), because the three JR companies operating in this area (JR West, JR Central or Tokai, and JR East) all have their own separate regional passes, and there isn't much overlap. (I have gotten value from the Hokuriku Arch Pass a couple of times, but for most people it is simply not a good choice.) Furthermore, of the three nationwide JR passes, the 14-day pass is particularly difficult to get value out of. The pass offerings in western Japan are the most tantalizing, in my opinion, but if you need to get from Tokyo to Kansai, especially if you want to include Takayama, practically any solution you come up with has major drawbacks. I've sure been through this plenty of times...

If you are considering Takayama to Toyama to Kanazawa via JR train I would advise against this. There are only 4 direct trains a day between Takayama and Toyama. It also involves back tracking since you are trying to squeeze in Shirakawa Go.

The most efficient way between Matsumoto and Takayama is bus or car. You don't want to try to do it by train and add hours to your trip.
The only way to Shirakawa Go is bus, car or as there is no train to it.

From Shirakawa Go you are nearly halfway by bus to Kanazawa, why back track just to use JR? There is a 3 star bus pass for 5500 yen that specifically covers your route by bus and might make financial sense.

Passes are only good if they save you money on your itinerary. There are certainly times a nationwide pass makes sense or where it's a toss up, but your itinerary involves limited shinkansen travel.

Good luck

If spending the night in Matsumoto is a must, then I think that bus to Takayama is definitely the way to go, and bus is the only way to get to Shirakawago (and continuing on to Kanazawa by bus is most logical). In that case, there doesn't seem to be any decent rail option for this part of the trip. On the other hand, if the OP really wants to get a rail pass, it might be possible to spend the night in Nagano after sightseeing in Matsumoto (on "Day 6"), and then go to Takayama by train (on "Day 7"), spending a few hours there, and then continuing on to Kanazawa via Shirakawago (all by bus so not covered by a rail pass). With that option, there is a greater possibility that a 14-day nationwide pass could pay off. The problem with this is the limited number of trains from Toyama to Takamatsu. You either have to leave Nagano at 6:11 or at 8:45. The first is too darn early for most people, and the second just doesn't give you enough time in Takayama. It would be a perfect solution for me (because I could easily leave Nagano at 6:11 myself, and I've done that exact ride to Takayama for a few hours of sightseeing, and loved it). But I accept that it would be a lousy option for normal people (especially with a child involved--yikes).

So the bottom line is, something has to go, and probably it's the notion of using trains at all between Matsumoto and Kanazawa. This probably makes it utterly impossible (instead of merely difficult) to get a rail pass to pay off for this part of the trip.

If it's any consolation, this is probably the trickiest part of the trip to figure out, although Nikko, Mt. Fuji, and the destinations after Kanazawa will also involve some decision making. I just love it when people go on and on about how easy it is to travel in Japan on your own! I'm certainly not an advocate of group tours and travel agencies (especially as some of them are actually terrible), but I can't quite understand why they are almost universally panned on these forums. To be sure, for a family on a budget, DIY is almost always the way to go, but they need to be willing to do the research. Fortunately, Japan travel is worth it!