30+ Days in Japan, JR Pass Worth It?

My boyfriend and I will be in Japan for the month of October 2019. Below are our high-level itinerary details. We are trying to figure out if a 3-week JR Pass is worth it and when it would be best to activate in order to optimize travel costs. We are also flexible in rearranging our itinerary. We also have two extra days and would love your input on where to add these! Thanks in advance for your help!

Day 1-3: Tokyo
Day 4: Day Trip to Nikki
Day 5: Day Trip to Mount Fuji Area
Day 6: Tokyo
Day 7-10: Kyoto
Day 11: Day Trip to Nara
Day 12: Kyoto
Day 13-14: Osaka
Day 15: Day Trip to Himeji & Kobe
Day 16: Overnight Stay in Koyasan
Day 17-18: Hiroshima
Day 19: Day Trip to Miyajima
Day 20-21: Kanazawa
Day 22: Takayama
Day 23: Matsumoto
Day 24: Nagano
Day 25-26: Yamanouchi
Day 27-28: Kusatsu Onsen
Day 29-30: Tokyo

Pay as you go. As you long distance travel is few and far between.

I think a 14 day nationwide pass could pay off for the last 14 days of your trip. Starting with your trip to Hiroshima through arrival back to Tokyo. There are a lot of expensive long rail legs in that 2 week stretch.

Great - thank you both so much!

Over the past eight trips to Japan, I've used all the railpasses at this point. For most any trip longer than two hours, the railpasses start to pretty much pay for themselves if you intend to use the shinkansen.

I've used all the railpasses at this point.

Oh, boy...

We adjusted our itinerary a bit and removed some of the Japanese Alps from the end of our trip and added an extra day to Kyoto \ see below for the revised itinerary.

We are thinking of purchasing the national JR Pass and using it starting Day 7 to Day 27 back to Narita Airport. Thoughts here? Is it worth it?

In addition, we are thinking of purchasing a regional pass i.e. JR Tokyo Wide Pass if we did Narita, Nikko and either Lake Kawaguichiko or Hakone for the first 3 days in Tokyo and spending the remaining 3 days in Tokyo proper.

Day 1-3: Tokyo
Day 4: Day Trip to Nikki
Day 5: Day Trip to Mount Fuji Area
Day 6: Tokyo
Day 7-10: Kyoto
Day 11: Day Trip to Nara
Day 12-13: Kyoto
Day 14-15: Osaka
Day 16: Day Trip to Himeji & Kobe
Day 17: Overnight Stay in Koyasan
Day 18-19: Hiroshima
Day 20: Day Trip to Miyajima
Day 21-22: Kanazawa
Day 23-24: Yamanouchi
Day 25: Stopover in Nagano to Tokyo
Day 26: Tokyo
Day 27: Travel to Narita Airport

Yes, you can make a 21 day pass pay off. Once you make a 14 day pass pay off, it is not difficult to make the 21 day pass pay off with some additional travel.
You can see this yourself with the rail pass calculator.
https://www.japan-guide.com/railpass/
There are some people who say you'll make a pass worthwhile by the number of trips you take, others by the numbers of prefectures you cross, and still others by the amount of time you spend on the trains...the truth is you should not pay attention to any of that - you should add together the actual fares and see if it is worth it - that's the only way to know for sure, without any ambiguity.
There are some points on your plans though - you could save some time if you switch Koyasan and Himeji/Kobe, and after seeing the latter, go straight on to Hiroshima without the backtracking.
You should know if you don't already that JR trains won't take you all the way to Koyasan. Look into getting the Koyasan World Heritage Ticket.
https://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2358_012.html
You can see the best there is at Koyasan in a day, but no matter what, do not miss the Okunoin Cemetery.
https://goo.gl/uAi9oX
And if you are staying there overnight and want to see the cemetery at night (a really surreal experience), make sure you are staying at a place with no curfew. For Himeji, if you are splitting the day with Kobe, you can see the castle and Kokoen Garden - both are some of Japan's best. See the castle first - last entry will be 4 PM for the castle, and for the garden, at 4:30 PM. Get the combo ticket for both and you can save a little money.
https://goo.gl/65ZtRi

For Hiroshima/Miyajima, 3 days is more than adequate. You could even reallocate a day somewhere else if you wish.
https://goo.gl/fAz4ax
Another option is go a bit further and see Iwakuni. The Akiyoshido Cave is also the finest in the country and there aren't many places to see caverns way over your head and an underground river rushing past you.
https://goo.gl/NNQVrV

You could if you wish pull a day off of Kusatsu - one day is enough. There are other sights nearby like Minakami, Karuizawa etc.

Japan Rail Pass (21-day, about 60000 yen) is not the best deal
for you to save the cost for your new itinerary's Days 7 through 27.

I suggest that you visit Mount Koya earlier and Himeji + Kobe later.

You can travel with
JR regular tickets
(mainly on a Shinkansen Hikari to Kyoto with your seat reserved),
JR West Kansai-Hiroshima Area Pass
(from Days 17 through 21 including one day for Himeji + Kobe,
on trains and Miyajima ferries without seat reservation)
and JR Hokuriku Arch Pass
(from Days 21 through 27, on trains with your seats reserved).
The cost on this combination
is estimated at around 54500 yen per adult.

The 21-day pass is probably not the best option. Yes, you could use it from Tokyo to Kyoto and all the way back to Narita, but there are several combinations including the one suggested by the PP.
Another option you could check is single tickets to the Kansai region (Kyoto) and using a 7-day pass for the trips to Hiroshima and through to Yamanouichi. Then single tickets back to Tokyo. However, using passes does give some restrictions. Local trains are pretty small for cost and your trips to Nikko and Fuji (which one - you don't specify) can be done with non-JR transport.
The cost of travel is based on distance - it is codified in the JR rules - and on the shinkansen is works out around 30 yen per km. So a 7-day pass you need to do more them 1,000km and for a 21-day pass more than 2,000 km before any savings.
Do a detailed plan - don't use those JR-pass calculators, and there are discounts/tricks that lower the cost. I happily spend 50-60k on a two week trip rather than a 14-day pass because it saves time, run into fewer sold-out trains, and I can get my seats done before people holding a JRP arrive in the country.

Hello again \ thanks for the above input! We have revised our itinerary again based on some of the above feedback \ see below. Essentially we moved our overnight stay in Koyasan up (now traveling from Kyoto -> Koyasan -> Osaka), saved an extra day by visiting Himeji & Kobe on our way from Osaka to Hiroshima, and updated the Japanese Alps locations a bit. A few questions:

1) Do you see other opportunities to tweak our itinerary to optimize time in each city and travel costs?

2) For the Kansai part of our trip, we were thinking of using one of the below three passes. Thoughts on these?

- JR Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass
- JR Kansai Hokuriku Area Pass
- JR Kansai Area Pass

3) In addition, with these above regional passes, it looks like we will not be able to reserve seats. This includes travel from Osaka to Himeji, Kobe, Hiroshima, and Kanazawa. Will we need to reserve seats for the trains heading there? If not, will there be seats available or do you think that seats will likely be fully booked for the days that we are traveling?

10/3-10/5: Tokyo
10/6: Day Trip to Nikko
10/7: Day Trip to Lake Kawaguchiko
10/8-10/11: Kyoto
10/12: Day Trip to Nara
10/13-10/14: Kyoto
10/15: Overnight Stay in Koyasan
10/16-10/18: Osaka
10/19: Himeji & Kobe (through to Hiroshima)
10/20: Hiroshima
10/21: Day Trip to Miyajima
10/22-10/23: Kanazawa
10/24: Takayama
10/25-10/26: Hirayu Onsen / Kamikochi
10/27: Matsumoto (through to Tokyo)
10/28: Tokyo
10/29: Travel to Narita Airport

What is it that you want to visit in Osaka?

If you have a clear idea thatfs fine, but there are many people (me included) that think that Osaka is somewhat dull compared to other destinations. I would either stay longer in Kyoto, stay 2 days in Nara or add the days in your Japanese Alps leg.

But thatfs me.

There isnft anything wrong with Osaka, itfs just not that interesting for most of us. Take it from someone who spends 2+ months in Osaka (on business trip) every year, but normally spends the weekends elsewhere in Kansai region.

Enjoy your trip to Japan!

We plan on doing Osaka proper (Kita, Minami, Tennoji areas and Osaka Castle) in the first 2 days (with one being a travel day from Koyasan). On the last day, we plan on going to the Cup Noodle Museum and then taking it slow and enjoying all the great food in Osaka! We feel like we have plenty of time in Kyoto and Nara so we are going to leave Osaka as is. Thanks for your input!

We wanted to see if anyone could help us here so we are reposting the question! Thanks!

We have revised our itinerary again based on some of the above feedback \ see below. Essentially we moved our overnight stay in Koyasan up (now traveling from Kyoto -> Koyasan -> Osaka), saved an extra day by visiting Himeji & Kobe on our way from Osaka to Hiroshima, and updated the Japanese Alps locations a bit. A few questions:

1) For the Kansai part of our trip, we were thinking of using one of the below three passes. Thoughts on these?

- JR Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass
- JR Kansai Hokuriku Area Pass
- JR Kansai Area Pass

2) In addition, with these above regional passes, it looks like we will not be able to reserve seats. This includes travel from Osaka to Himeji, Kobe, Hiroshima, and Kanazawa. Will we need to reserve seats for the trains heading there? If not, will there be seats available or do you think that seats will likely be fully booked for the days that we are traveling?

10/3-10/5: Tokyo
10/6: Day Trip to Nikko
10/7: Day Trip to Lake Kawaguchiko
10/8-10/11: Kyoto
10/12: Day Trip to Nara
10/13-10/14: Kyoto
10/15: Overnight Stay in Koyasan
10/16-10/18: Osaka
10/19: Himeji & Kobe (through to Hiroshima)
10/20: Hiroshima
10/21: Day Trip to Miyajima
10/22-10/23: Kanazawa
10/24: Takayama
10/25-10/26: Hirayu Onsen / Kamikochi
10/27: Matsumoto (through to Tokyo)
10/28: Tokyo
10/29: Travel to Narita Airport

- JR Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass
- JR Kansai Hokuriku Area Pass
- JR Kansai Area Pass

Among them I think JR Kansai Hiroshima pass is worth while, but I donft think other two are valuable.

For JR Kansai Hokuriku Area Pass, I guess you think you can use it to travel from JR Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass area (Tsuruga in this case) to Kanazawa, but it is only 4100 yen if you take non-reserved seat.

You donft need to buy ticket, just ride on the Thunderbird non-reserved seat (note that there are gnon-reserved carsh in which all seats are free seating like in the commuter trains. You will find a conductor during your travel to Kanazawa. Just show your Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass to her/him and say just gKanazawah then they will take 4100 yen and give you a slip to show at the manned gate at Kanazawa station.

After Kanazawa you may want to consider Three Star Route Shinjuku ticket which will take you from Kanazawa to Shirakawago, Takayama, Hirayu, Matsumoto and finally Shinjuku though you need to buy ticket from Hirayu to Kamikochi and back separately.
https://www.nouhibus.co.jp/other/mitsuboshi_route_en/

I am not sure what do you want to do with JR Kansai Area Pass, but it will not pay off for just to travel and back to Nara. Rather you may better consider Kansai thru pass which will take you from Kyoto to Koyasan and Koyasan to Osaka.
https://www.surutto.com/tickets/kansai_thru_english.html
Buy 3 day pass 5300 yen and use it for 1. Round trip from Kyoto to Nara, 2. Kyoto to Koyasan and 3. Koyasan to Osaka. Note that this pass is valid only for non-JR trains.

2) In addition, with these above regional passes, it looks like we will not be able to reserve seats. This includes travel from Osaka to Himeji, Kobe, Hiroshima, and Kanazawa. Will we need to reserve seats for the trains heading there? If not, will there be seats available or do you think that seats will likely be fully booked for the days that we are traveling?

I am sorry but I am afraid you might misunderstand about the train reservation system in Japan. In some countries, all seats of the express trains are basically for the use of reserved seat holders. If the seats are gfully bookedh there are no seats available for the passengers without seat reservation. In Japan, most express trains including Shinkansen have gnon-reservedh cars so you may have your seat in these cars. Of course, if the train is extremely crowded, you might need to stand all the way, but in general it is quite rare.

Further, if you may need to buy the reserved seat ticket, you need to pay the full fare for the greserved seat ticket for the express trainh though your pass will cover gthe base fareh.

Thanks for the response.

RE: Thunderbird non-reserver: 4100 Yen:
- How do we enter a Thunderbird train in Osaka or Kyoto (at the end of our Kansai Hiroshima Pass)? Don't we need to show a ticket at the ticket gate or scan our Osaka/Kyoto-Kanazawa tickets on the scanning machines? Essentially, we're not sure how to actually get to the conductor to ask to go to Kanazawa.

RE: Three-Star Shinjuku Route:
- Thanks for the recommendation! I just checked the nouhibus site and it looks like the Mitsuboshi Kaidou Three-Star Route Option Ticket (5,500 Yen) might be able to save us even more money! Highway buses are ~3500 Yen from Matsumoto to Shinjuku so the Three-Star ticket and the add'l bus to Shinjuku would total to 9000 Yen vs. 9,500 Yen for the Three Star Ticket to Shinjuku.
- Only question here: if we were to book the reserved buses separately (Kanazawa to Takayama & Matsumoto to Shinjuku), would we be able to change the reservation easily? I ask because the Three-Star tickets do not allow for reservation changes.

RE: Train Seat Reservation System
- We are worried that we won't find seats on the non-reserved section of the trains because we are getting on the train to Hiroshima at either Kobe or Himeji vs. at the terminus - Osaka. Or maybe I'm still not understanding the transportation system haha.

Thanks in advance for your feedback and advice.

- How do we enter a Thunderbird train in Osaka or Kyoto (at the end of our Kansai Hiroshima Pass)? Don't we need to show a ticket at the ticket gate or scan our Osaka/Kyoto-Kanazawa tickets on the scanning machines? Essentially, we're not sure how to actually get to the conductor to ask to go to Kanazawa.

Note that the valid area is as far as Tsuruga.

https://www.westjr.co.jp/global/en/ticket/pass/kansai_hiroshima/

You can use the pass at the automated ticket gate. I am a Japanese and have never used JRfs any Rail Pass, so am not sure but I guess it is a magnetic card and you put it into the slot in the gate and receive it at the opposite end, maybe. You can do this at any of the train stations within the validity area. You might better start at Osaka, not Shin-Osaka because Osaka is the starting station of Thunderbird. You can find vacant seat (non-reserved) more easily in Osaka than in Shin-Osaka. To do this you need to take a commuter train (5 min ride, runs very frequently between Shin-Osaka and Osaka).

To ask the conductor? He/She will go around the train. If you can not find him/her, donft worry. At Kanazawa station you can easily find a station staff. Tell him/her gNorikoshi desuh or if you are very shy, just show your Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass. It is not illegal to ride on the train outside of the validity area, you just need to pay the fee from Tsuruga to Kanazawa. There may be fare adjustment machine in Kanazawa but I am not sure. Even if you canft find the staff, go straight to the manned ticket gate and show your pass. He/she will handle it, no worry.

- Only question here: if we were to book the reserved buses separately (Kanazawa to Takayama & Matsumoto to Shinjuku), would we be able to change the reservation easily? I ask because the Three-Star tickets do not allow for reservation changes.
You need reservation for Kanazawa to Shirakawago, which runs on the toll road. And no they donft allow reservation change after your reserved bus departure. Before departure I donft know. I think you should reserve the bus after your plan is finally fixed.


- We are worried that we won't find seats on the non-reserved section of the trains because we are getting on the train to Hiroshima at either Kobe or Himeji vs. at the terminus - Osaka. Or maybe I'm still not understanding the transportation system haha.

Well, I canft assure, but if you wait at Osaka station for Thunderbird, you will take the non-reserved seat. Basically the Thunderbird departs Osaka every 30 min, so you donft need to worry. You may better go to Himeji first and backtrack to Kobe (Shin-Kobe actually) since you can see the night view from the ropeway top station easily accessible from Shin-Kobe station. You will go on Saturday when the ropeway runs until 21:00.
http://www.kobeherb.com/en/
Traveling time for Shin-Osaka to Himeji and Himeji to Shin-kobe is very short so even if you canft take the seat, it will be no problem. There are Shinkansen trains departing Shin-Osaka (first station) so if you get this, you will have less problem. From Shin-Kobe to Hiroshima, take late evening train which will be less crowded.

Oh, I forgot to write: Pack light. You might have trouble if you bring large suitcases. Basically Japanese trains have no separate luggage room so you need to put your luggage on the overhead rack (almost the same size of luggage rack in the airplane).

Hi all,

Thanks again for all your suggestions. We went to book the three-star Route Shinjuku ticket today and are running into some issues. We tried booking it sooner, but the Nohi site didn't allow for that until it was within the same month of travel (October).

Here's what we've tried:
- Tried to book on the Nohi site directly... Previously, it showed a calendar where we couldn't select our dates because we tried booking too early (before October). Today: there was no calendar and it shows the following message: "There is no handling of this tour now."

- Highway-buses.jp site... The site only allows you to choose a three-star route shinjuku ticket that starts in Shinjuku and ends in either Toyama or Kanazawa. We are doing the journey the other way around. We tried to swap the path on the site, but the drop-down menus don't allow for it.

- Read a few posts here from the past (~2016) where folks were just told to book when in Kanazawa. Is this the best option? Will there be any issues with reserving the buses from Kanazawa to Kamikochi and Matsumoto to Shinjuku?

Thanks again!