December itinerary sanity check

Hi everyone,

We're planning a 2nd family trip to Japan and would appreciate feedbacks on the rough plan below. Specifically, I'm looking for guidance on how to best optimise the route between the places we'd like to go. Also, let me know if there's any red flags with this plan e.g. don't go to x place in winter, or driving around Wakayama may not be best idea etc.

Starting from mid December:

- Tokyo 3 nights
- Nikko 1 night
- Tokyo 2 nights (day trips somewhere)
- Koyasan 1 night (train to Osaka then hire car)
- Katsuura 1 night (rest stop after sightseeing shrines, waterfall and Daimon-zaka slope)
- Nagoya 2 nights (train to Nagoya after returning car in Osaka, day trip Kiso Valley)
- Takayama 2 nights (Shirkawa-go day trip)
- Okuhida 1 night (Ryokan experience)
- Tokyo 8 nights (day trip to Fuji Q)

Some questions:
1. Is it better to stay near Nikko station or Kinugawa if we're more interested in covering the popular sites and don't care so much about onsen?
2. Is there a better town than Katsuura to spend the night for quicker drive back to Osaka?
3. Is it better to day trip Kiso Valley from Nagoya or Takayama?
4. Should I spend a night near Fuji Q so we can get to the park early? Also, what's the crowd and queue like early Jan?

Thanks in advance.

The obvious question is where you plan to spend the time from New Year�fs Eve to the New Year�fs Days (at least 3 days into the New Year) in this itinerary.
You would not want to be driving near a major shrine/temple around that time (for the crowd that gather), and also some if not many sightseeing spots close year-end/beginning of the year.
Please read the section on New Year�fs days on this Japan Guide if you haven�ft already, and decide where you�fd want to be.

1. If by �gmajor sites�h you mean the temples/shrines and the lake and the waterfalls, then Nikko station. (Some people are interested in the Edo Mura/Edo Wonderland, which is closer to Kinugawa, but for the rest, stay in Nikko.)

4. The park is near Mt. Fuji and one of the 5 lakes – so if you want to enjoy the views there, yes, it would be nice to stay overnight.

Thank you for responding.

I hadn't thought about the crowds at temples during new year, thanks for bringing it up. Based on current plan, we will be in Takayama and Okuhida between the 29th-1st, so I think we should be ok.

Re Nikko, we're not interested in going to all the shrines and temples, maybe 1 or 2 of the most popular. Other than that, we would like to see the bridge, abyss, waterfalls, lake Chuzenji (and temple). I guess Nikko would be the better choice still?

We have been to the Fuji lake area in our last trip and this time we just want to do the Fuji Q. The reason for considering overnight there is so we can get to the park early.

Do you think my proposed route make sense? i.e. Tokyo > Koyasan (via train to Osaka and car hire) > Katsuura (return car and train from Osaka)> Nagoya > Takayama > Tokyo.

Overall I think you should reduce a bit the Tokyo days and slow down the rest of the itinerary. Getting from Tokyo to Koyasan is going to be a full day �gwork�h but then you only have 1 night there before you need to hit the road again.

Where are you going to pick up/return the car? Note that if you return in a different prefecture there will be additional costs. It can pay off, but you need to be aware.

I was planning to hire and return the car in Osaka. You're right, it is almost a full day of traveling to get to Koyasan from Tokyo. I think I will add a night in Osaka and head to Koyasan in the morning.

Maybe I'll also reduce another night in Tokyo and add it to either Takayama or Nikko.

Any thoughts on whether it's better to to Kiso Valley day trip from Nagoya or Takayama?

Thanks.

Since no one has mentioned the possibility of snow, I guess I will.

I went to Koya-san 20 years ago in November and while it didn't snow while I was there, there was snow piled up in various locations and it was awful cold. In I think '05, I took the local line that runs on the same tracks as the Kuroshio from Kainan to Tanabe around Christmas and somewhere on the route the train got delayed because of a lot of blowing snow. There was very little accumulation, but yes, there can be snow. Anywhere in Japan where roads close for the Winter, there can be snow on either side of the closing.

In terms of New Years, if where you are staying in Takayama includes meals, you are fine, but I would not stay someplace that doesn't include meals unless you are in a very big city or you plan to self-cook. That same '05 trip I spent New Years in Tokyo, and even in Tokyo a lot of restaurants and cafes were closed. I was on a tighter budget back then and staying at the Sumisho Hotel, and everything around it was closed for several days, even places like Tully's. While shrines and temples can be crowded, the areas around them are the most lively and most likely to have restaurants and cafes open. I also enjoy fukubukuro or lucky bags. The most popular bags you need to apply to purchase.

Unless you plan to rent a car and again, see snow and possible road closures, you want to visit the Kiso Valley from Nagoya and not Takayama. If you look at the Chubu map on this website, you can see that Takayama is on one train line while the Kiso Valley is on another. If you had the time you could do Nagoya to Takayama to Okuhida then by bus to Matsumoto and then the train from Matsumoto to the Kiso Valley and I guess go from there go back to Nagoya or backtrack up to Shiojiri to head towards Fuji Five Lakes.

Good luck!

Thanks rkold, you've given me valuable insights here.

Snow is going to be an issue as I have never driven in snowy conditions before. How difficult is it driving from Osaka > Koyasan > Nachi falls during winter?

I'll definitely consider booking accommodation with meals in Takayama if there's something within budget. Otherwise, hopefully we can stock up on some food on the way there.

Re Kiso, I was aware of the train routes from Takayama however I did come across a bus route here https://www.nouhibus.co.jp/route_bus/magome_tsumago_line_en/ . Would this be better option than train from Nagoya? Looks like the bus is a bit quicker.

Thanks.

I recommend a day trip from Nagoya to Kiso valley since you have a plan to visit Shirakawago on a day trip to Takayama.
It takes about 2.5 hours by limited express between Nagoya and Takayama. So it's tough to go back and forth.
It's easy to go to Kiso valley, which takes about 1.5 hours from Nagoya to Magomejuku by JR and bus.
You can enjoy walking along Nakasendo and visiting old post towns on your day trip from Nagoya.

Any thoughts on whether it's better to to Kiso Valley day trip
Are you planning to do the MagomeTsumago Trail?  I did it during spring time a few years ago, nice weather, but  uneventful, boring hike. You'll be doing it in winter time, be ready to expect the unexpected.

Thanks Kakuhiro, I will consider it doing Kiso valley from Nagoya.

Yes, I was planning to do Magome-Tsumago Trail. I had a look at some winter photos of the trail and they look beautiful. What did you find boring about it?

Hi!

Sorry this response is so late.

In terms of snow, it really just depends on you. There could be no snow, but there could be light snow or more. Anytime you travel somewhere where snow can occur in Winter it's a risk. I haven't been to Nachi and I wasn't driving on my visits to Wakayama-ken. I was usually going between Osaka, Kainan and Tanabe, so I was happy to use Kuroshio Limited Expresses, or the local when traveling with my JET friends. But a friend drove me in bad snow in Japan (Golden Week in Tohoku) and it was pretty miserable and scary. I have driven in thick heavy snow in the US and it's not fun.

You could take that bus, but unless you are planning to stay overnight in the Kiso Valley it's a really long bus trip roundtrip and I think timing for the return bus will not be fun.

If you don't want to do so much back tracking, you could add a day for Kanazawa and do Osaka to Kanazawa and then take the bus to Shirakawa Go before traveling onwards by bus to Takayama.

But again, I recommend following @AK's advice and making sure everything you want to do is open for New Years and the surrounding days.

I too plan to visit Japan December 2022, but will be in Tokyo for New Years at a hotel with open restaurants.

I'm grateful for any response, late or otherwise, so no need to be sorry.

Kuroshio Express looks like a great option if I decide not to drive however I'm currently leaning towards driving (assuming I can handle winter driving) as it makes it easier to visit the places of interest along the kumano kodo. Someone from another forum has suggested returning the car at Kii-Katsuura and train from there directly to Nagoya which I really like as it avoids having to go back to Osaka.

I'm not really interested in Kanazawa so will give that a miss.

I am rethinking the plan around New Year period. My initial thought was to have a getaway from the big city because I read that's what locals do. If I spend this period in Tokyo, apart from having better dining options, will there be much else to do?

Hi!

As long as you rent it in Koya-san, you should be fine because there shouldn't be a drop off-fee for the Kii-Katsura return. Another idea is you could have something else penciled in on the off-chance snow is predicted. I know rental car reservations are not as generous as the ones in the US, but I think there was a several day grace period for cancellation which would let you see a weather forecast. Just be aware, I'm not sure exactly what you planned route is in Wakayama-ken but there are some roads that require snow chains and are only open certain hours of the day.

You have over 8 nights in Tokyo planned, I'm not sure what you planned to do for those or what day trips, but it might make sense to have those be around New Years. As for me personally, I plan to shop fukubukuros and see friends who live in the Tokyo area. It's a great time to visit people since they tend to have off work. I might just pay a premium and visit a ryokan right before New Years unless there is some sort of event in Tokyo I want to go to. I've heard there are also some great Winter light ups. I might go to Yomimuriland or see how overpriced Tokyo Disney is.

I think a lot of Japanese people travel to see family, to go to ryokan, or a ski resort, or someplace where food is either inclusive, being made by family, or has an expectation of people on vacation. Think of it this way, New Years in Japan is a bit like Christmas in Christian majority countries like Australia or the US, only more can be closed and for more days.

Good luck!

I was thinking of renting a car from Osaka for convenience sake rather than lugging everything on the train to get to Koyasan. I will have to see how much the drop off fee will be. If it does snow then I think I will skip Wakayama and go to Hiroshima as I haven't been there before.

I have now changed my plan so that I'll be in Tokyo from the 28th Dec until my departure on the 9th Jan, with an overnight to Nikko in between (probably on the 2nd Jan). I have a few day trips in mind such as Yokohama, Kamakurra, and maybe Fuji Q. The winter illumination is definitely on my radar but you have also brought up a couple of activities which I haven't come across like fukubukuros and Yomimuriland which I will check out.

Update itinerary:
17-20 Osaka
20-21 Koyasan
21-22 Kii Katsuura or Shingu
22-25 Nagoya
25-27 Takayama
27-28 Okuhida
28-02 Tokyo
02-03 Nikko
03-09 Tokyo

The only thing I'm undecided on is where to have the Ryokan experience. Current plan is to do that in Okuhida but I'm wondering if there are better choices for the places that I'll be traveling through such as somewhere along the kumano kodo, or Nikko, or even in Takayama itself. I'll do some more research but happy to hear some thoughts.

Thanks!

Hi!

You can always Ta-Q-Bin your larger suitcases around. I tend to like to do it and just use a smaller carry on sized bag when I need to take a train. It costs around 2000 yen per suitcase.

I believe drop-off fees tend to start at 10,000 yen and can be higher. I remember looking at renting a car from Takayama to Matsumoto and it was a 10,000 yen drop off fee.

If you like amusement parks, I think Yomimuriland looks like fun. I've heard good things about Bandit.

But yeah, if you do a search for things that are open for the New Years you can find things. I am sure Kamakura will have a lot open because of all the temples and shrines.

I've personally never stayed at a ryokan in Takayama, I tend to stay at the Associa. I know someone else on this forum is also a fan of that hotel. It has two floors of onsen.

Oh yes, I completely forgot about the luggage forwarding service! Thanks for the reminder.

Theme parks definitely on the cards seeing that I'm travelling with a 12 and 14 year old.

Associa looks great but a little out of the way from town it seems, and also over my budget. I'm planning to cheap out on most hotel booking except for the Ryokan :D

Hi!

I'm sorry I have no idea how much the Associa is for 4. All the times I've booked it, it's either just been me, or me and my daughter. I want to say we paid about $120-$150 USD breakfast inclusive? There is a free shuttle bus to and from Takayama Station so as long as you pay attention to the times, it's not really an issue. I stayed in February and June. I want to say rates were better 4-5 months out vs. 6 months out, but again, I don't know how it works when there are 4 "adults" (since kids over 7 often count as an adult) in a room.

In the past I've only done Disney and USJ (and Eigamura in Kyoto pre-child.) My daughter was young and short. Quite a few rides in Japan request that the rider be 10+ to ride even if they make the height line. Yours are much older so that won't be a problem.

Cheers, year the Associa is fantastic value - big rooms, great onsens, breakfast is awesome and there is a japanese restaurant there which is very reasonably priced, drinks are cheap too. Worth stretching the budget for a couple of nights if you can, if only for the onsen.

Yeah I will keep an eye on Associa to see if price drops over the coming months. For now, it's showing me around $450 AUD per night for 4 of us.

I think I have a solid itinerary now. Fingers crossed for border to fully open by December.

Thank you all for your help.

If you get to Takayama, a few km from Associa is a squirrel park, it is fantastic. My missus and I go there every time we are in Takayama, it gets tired pretty quickly but a lot of fun. Japanese call squirrels "Risu", they might not understand if you say Squirrel.