Railpass-related question

Dear community,

in late march I have planned a Kansai-Area itinerary, that looks like this at the beginning:

Day 1 - Land at Osaka - Transfer to Fukuyama / stay in Fukuyama (10380 JPY)
Day 2 - Transfer to and from and visit Okunoshima / stay in Fukuyama (1720 JPY)
Day 3 - Transfer to Himeji / stay in Himeji (5900 JPY)
Day 4 - Transfer to Kyoto / stay in Kyoto (2310 JPY)
Day 5 - Stay in Kyoto (no costs covered by the pass)
.....

I did the calculation on the train costs and came to the conclusion that using a "JR Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass" would pay about off if bought outside of Japan - though with no huge savings (about 4000 JPY per person if using reserved seats and a little less if using unreserved seats).

(I'm aware of the option to cut on costs if using local trains combined with a JR Kansai Wide Area Pass for example, on the bit from Okayama to Fukuyama. But we carry our luggage and have a child with us, so this would mean extra travel time and stress I would prefer to avoid.)

This leads to the following questions:

1. Did I do that calculation about right and came to the right choice regarding the Railpass? Even if we wouldn't use reserved seats, we should at least be even.
2. As we cannot use the Shinkansen between Shin-Osaka and Kyoto with this pass, I'd opt for the direct local train because a transfer from Shinkansen to local trains at Shin-Osaka would only safe us about 15-25Min.
However: as the direct Nozomi could cut the traveling time by half (45Min): Is it possible to purchase a ticket from Himeji to Kyoto and just pay the extra costs for the bit between Shin-Osaka and Kobe? Or would I have to buy separate tickets?

Thank you very much, kind regards
Jan

correction to the 2nd question: It has to read "Shin-Osaka to Kyoto" of course, not Kobe
Sorry

If you are worried about luggage and children. Why so many transfers? Pick somewhere west of Kansai and stay there for the first 3-4 days.

@H

Not really an option. Just added that to nip suggestions about taking local trains for Okayama to Himeji in the bud.

But thanks for trying to put my mind into a different direction here.

Hi!

I have travelled quite a bit with a child in tow. (me, the mom with just my kid because my husband never had vacation time, go America *sarcasm*)

Are you flying into KIX or Itami?

Personally, I can say that my kid doesn't like constant hotel changes. It's one of her pet peeves because it involves packing everything up in the morning. Getting out to early activities is not the same. I can't imagine a young child wanting to deal with packing everything up every day for 4 days after a presumably long International flight.

I don't know you think you don't have a choice in how you arrange your hotels unless everything was non-refundable which is a sort of odd choice to make.

Have you thought about staying in Okayama until you travel to Kyoto? It's a shorter trip from the airport, is still do able to Okunoshima, and isn't too bad to Himeji either. It's a pleasant city and if you have spare time there are things you can do there, like the garden. I'm not going to lie, I've been to Himeji many times, and I've never actually stayed in Himeji. I'm always coming from Kyoto or Osaka or somewhere else. It's really not necessarily to stay there overnight unless you are planning some super late night activity in which case I might ask you why you are doing so with a young child.

I am unsure about paying the fees, I know with other regional passes people have said it is possible, just very expensive, but your particularly trip is not that expensive by shinkansen since it's just not that far. Though I am honestly unsure how you are going to save 45 minutes, that's an awful lot. I'm thinking 20 minutes at most.

Good luck!

(Okayama to Fukuyama, of course)

Hey rkold

Thank you for your reply.

We're flying to KIX.

The Idea to stay in Okayama also crossed my mind. It would indeed mean one change of hotels less and just a bit longer train travel. Maybe I'll consider it.
However, this is not my main concern. I probably should not have mentioned it in the first place as the discussion is now leaning towards this direction. It's going to be frequent change of hotels anyway so one more or less is not that big a deal.

Regarding trains from Himeji to Kyoto: the local train takes about 90min while a Nozomi can do It in 45 :) (at least that is what some search results told me)

Thanks again
Jan

Hi!

I am unsure what Okayama to Fukuyama means. You said you would save 45 minutes by taking the nozomi shinkansen from (implied) Himeji straight through to Kyoto instead of changing to a Special Rapid at Shin-Osaka. I am trying to figure out how you got to that calculation, since no matter what you have to go through Shin-Osaka and the big time savings come from point A to Shin-Osaka not Shin-Osaka to Kyoto.

I admit, looking at your itinerary I am confused, was your plan to stay in Fukuyama for all the nights until Kyoto, in which case, why are you back tracking from Himeji to Fukuyama, instead of just going onwards to Kyoto or are you spending 2 nights in Fukuyama and then going to Himeji, spending the night there and then going to Kyoto?

And yes, I get you want to see the rabbits, but depending on your flight into Japan and it's arrival time, your child is not necessarily going to be excited to travel all the way to Fukuyama from KIX or Itami. I know my kid tends to wake very early in Japan, and it would be easier to get her out at 7am post breakfast to sightsee, then to keep her awake past 19:00 pm on arrival day. She's gotten better about staying awake longer now, but she's also a lot older. Has your child done a lot of long distance travel? Do you know how they will react with time changes?

Good luck!

Hi!

If you have a Kansai Hiroshima Pass, why wouldn't you change in Shin-Osaka?? Why are you even considering taking the local from Himeji? Your Pass goes to Shin-Osaka, you change there for a Special Rapid, they take about 20-25 minutes to Kyoto and come every 10-15 minutes. You still might be able to pay the additional fee from Shin-Osaka to Kyoto (assuming you are not on a Sakura in which case you need to change any way and why pay 3000 yen then) But I've no idea why you wouldn't take the shinkansen to Shin-Osaka no matter what, as that is covered by JR West.

My question was just a curiousity one due to your reasoning behind not using locals/rapids.

Using shinkansens where allowed on your trips does pass the 15,000 yen amount. So yes said pass make sense.

It can be done cheaper using locals and rapids with about 30-90 minutes added each day. But since you are bouncing around alot hotel wise. Slower trains and time wasting changing hotels. I would go the pass option.

I am not sure whether the OP noticed: Kansai Hiroshima area pass does not cover Shinkansen from Shin-Osaka to Kyoto. So, if you take Shinkansen from Himeji, you must transfer at Shin-Osaka to non-Shinkansen trains such as "rapid service" which has no reserved seats hence you may not be able to find vacant seats (Shin-Osaka to Kyoto is very busy section). Alternatively you can use "Super Hakuto" limited express which has reserved seats and is covered by the Kansai Hiroshima area pass. This is slower than Shinkansen but faster and more comfortable than rapid service trains. One drawback is it is less frequent (once every two hours) than rapid service and Shinkansen.

@H

Thank you, that's what I thought.

@frog1954
Thank you for pointing that out again, but I was aware of that. That's what my 2nd question was about, if I could pay the additional fee for the part between Shin-Osaka and Kyoto and how much it would be.
A direct Nozomi takes 45Min from Himeji to Kyoto. So obviously that would be the fastest and most convenient option.
If it was possible and didn't cost too much, I'd prefer this.

But thanks to your idea I found a connection with a "Nozomi" leaving at 9:02 AM from Himeji to Shin-Osaka and a "Thunderbird" from Shin-Osaka to Kyoto. Total travel time is 1:06h with a transfer-time at Shin-Osaka of 15 Minutes and reserved seats. Definitely a good possibility.
(But really hard to figure out with the search-engines available)

Of course there is always the local rapid option taking 93Minutes and no transfers.
Any idea if we'd likely be able to find seats at Himeji on this trains (leaving about 9-ish) on a weekday?

@rkold

Thank you for your concern.
I strongly consider taking the local rapid as it goes straight through from Himeji to Kyoto and only takes 15 to 25 minutes (depending on the transfer time) longer than riding a shinkansen to Shin-Osaka and changing to local rapid.

Just take a rapid service from Shin-Osaka to Kyoto.
They are only 12 minutes slower than the shinkansen. And the run every 15 minutes.

@H

Thank you for your concern. I have fully understood the options and will weigh the pros and cons carefully.

However, my original question stands:

Is it possible to pay the extra costs for the Nozomi part between Shin-Osaka and Kyoto while buying a ticket from Himeji to Kyoto using the JR Okayama Hiroshima Yamaguchi Area Pass?
And if so, will it be the full 2700JPY reserved-seat fare which is due for a single ticket from Shin-Osaka and Kyoto?

if I could pay the additional fee for the part between Shin-Osaka and Kyoto and how much it would be.

West Japan's railpass, including the Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass, covers only the JR West area. As for Shinkansen, west of Shin-Osaka is included but east of Shin-Osaka (e.g. Shin-Osaka to Kyoto) is not included while the "conventional line" of Shin-Osaka to Kyoto is included. So if you want ride Shinkansen from Shin-Osaka to Kyoto (this is owned by JR Central) you must pay the base (570 yen) fare and the Shinkansen fare (870 yen for non-reserved seat, 2300 yen for reserved seat). You can buy the tickets at Himeji or on the Nozomi train.

I found a connection with a "Nozomi" leaving at 9:02 AM from Himeji to Shin-Osaka and a "Thunderbird" from Shin-Osaka to Kyoto. Total travel time is 1:06h with a transfer-time at Shin-Osaka of 15 Minutes and reserved seats.

Well done! I confirmed the timetable. But JR West have not announced the timetable for next March. Last time they changed timetable on 12th March 2022.

(But really hard to figure out with the search-engines available)

Well, Hyperdia no longer works for the timetable. Free version of Jorudan does not provide "Rail Pass search". I am a Japanese so I can search Japanese pages which makes things somewhat easier. I wonder how did you get the right answer.

Of course there is always the local rapid option taking 93Minutes and no transfers.
Any idea if we'd likely be able to find seats at Himeji on this trains (leaving about 9-ish) on a weekday?

You may consider Super Hakuto Limited Express.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Hakuto

Himeji 8:13 9:53 Kyoto
Himeji 10:25 11:47 Kyoto

Their reserved seat is fully covered by the Kansai Hiroshima Area Pass.

But honestly Nozomi/Thunderbird combination might be better.

Thank you so much frog.
Finally the answer I was looking for.
So I will reconsider if the additional 1440JPY will be worth the time safe.

>But JR West have not announced the timetable for next March. Last time they changed timetable on 12th March 2022.
I will check in time. Thank you.

> I wonder how did you get the right answer.
Had to search both connections separately and compare arrival and departure times at Shin-Osaka :/

>You may consider Super Hakuto Limited Express.

Strangely neither Japan Transit Planner nor NaviTime deliver the Hakuto as a search result, whatever I put in... very strange. Only the skeletal hyperdia showed it. It takes slightly longer but safes us the transfer and offers reserved seats at no extra costs, so I will definitely keep that in mind.

Again, thanks for your help (and sorry in advance if the italic passages come out messed up - I hate that there is no edit function)

Had to search both connections separately and compare arrival and departure times at Shin-Osaka :/

I found this JR-West site.

https://www.westjr.co.jp/global/en/

You can uncheck Shinkansen, Nozomi and Mizuho, etc. This is official website so it must be reliable :). This is only for JR-west but seems to include outsite JR-West area. I can find Tokyo to Nagano result but not Tokyo to Sapporo result.

That timetable finder is JR-Odekake. Covers all of Japan except nrth of Sendai.

Thank you frog.

This seems quite useful as it appears very down-to-earth, quite a bit like hyperdia.
I will very likely use it when determining our connections in March.

And thanks H for pointing out the scope of possible results.