itinerary - takayama area

I'm visiting Japan for the first time in May 2024 with my girlfriend - we're flying in and out of tokyo and our itinerary is currently (roughly) as follows. Nothing is booked yet except flights so i can play around with the amount of days in kyoto/tokyo if necessary.

We enjoy amazing natural scenery, moderate hiking/outdoors so are looking to get a good blend of the big cities/essential sights but also some smaller, quieter places. Having read many forums, i've come across the idea of kamikochi for a day of hiking but using a closeby smaller city as a base to relax and also enjoy the quieter scenery (day 12/13/14 of our trip).

My specific questions are:

1) Is 3 nights in takayama a good idea? The first day would be arriving from kyoto/seeing the city, the next full day would probably be a daytrip to kamikochi, the day after perhaps hida village and shirikawa-go and relaxing or a trip to matsumoto? then day after heading back to tokyo. This is very much TBC though and will be shaped by any advice i receive!

2) Is takayama a good fit for our needs or are we better off staying in matsumoto, kanzawa or a smaller place such as hirayu onsen? Kamikochi itself is probably too expensive and we only really want a day there for hiking and want to be able to visit other places. Is it possible to do some easy walking from takayama itself?

3) Is it most logical to visit the aforementioned area on the way back to tokyo (towards end of our trip) or on the way out from tokyo down to kyoto?

4) If the whole takayama section of this trip is a terrible idea logistically (time wise/time of year wise/cost wise/not worth the effort) what would be a better bet?

I've also toyed with the idea of some nights in nikko or hakone instead (or in addition to), or even the izu peninsula although i gather this isn't the best without a car. I also looked at kiso valley but kamikochi seems to be more highly recommended.

Itinerary

Arrive:

Day 1 - arrive in tokyo

Day 2 - tokyo - see city

Day 3 - tokyo - day trip Kawaguchiko

Day 4 - tokyo - see city

Day 5 - tokyo - day trip hakone (possibly too far as a day trip) or Nikko

Day 6 - tokyo - day trip kamakura/enoshima

Day 7 - tokyo - see city

Day 8 - kyoto - travel to kyoto

Day 9 - kyoto - see city

Day 10 - kyoto - day trip to osaka

Day 11 - kyoto - see city

Day 12 - kyoto to ??

Day 13 - takayama/matasumoto/kamikochi area?

Day 14 - takayama/matasumoto/kamikochi area?

Day 15 - head back to tokyo

Day 16 - fly home

TIA for all/any help this amazing forum can provide!

Hi, Takayama is great. We usually stay at Hotel Associa which is an onsen hotel, good prices and facilities a touch out of town but there is a shuttle.

Takayama is a beef town, so if you like beef you will be well catered for. There is also a squirrel park that is worth a visit, and Takayama park is good for a semi hike. We have probably stayed 2 weeks all up over the years but have never managed to get to Hida village. Maybe next time.

I would probably go the way you plan, but continue on from Takayama to kanazawa and see the garden before going on the Tokyo.

takayama is a good hub, but maybe it is also worth to consider instead to make 3 stays in different locations, since going back and forward to takayama is taking maybe more time than the short struggge of taking the luggage with you to the next hotel but therefore always go into one direction and having more time to expierience different places.

so i would suggest
1 night in takayama => 1 night in hirayu or shirahone => 1 night in matsumoto => back to tokyo

thanks both!

my only concern with doing 1 night takayama 1 night hirayu and 1 night matsumoto is the amount of checking in and out of hotels and moving big luggage around.

I'd maybe consider something like 2 in takayama and 1 in hirayu if that would be good instead? it's only an hour for takayama to kamikochi so not like it would be that far to go as a day trip for instance

If luggage is your main concern, you could ship your big luggage from Kyoto to your hotel in Tokyo (to arrive on the day when you will arrive in Tokyo) and just bring one smaller bag for the Takayama stretch.
Going in one direction might allow you to:
- experience ryokan or onsen hotel in Hirayu area
- limit the amount of time traveling forth and back
- potentially see Matsumoto castle before heading to Tokyo

I personally went to Takayama only once and did NOT like it... but maybe because I found the city very touristy. I was on a 2 months trip through remote parts of Japan and Takayama was my first really touristy place with a lot of foreign tourists. But I had avoided all the more normal tourist magnets. I clearly had too high expectations of Takayama as that remote, very traditional city... and to me it seemed that there is really only 1 nice street in Takayama. However the beef was excellent and Hida no sato was also nice. (I had been to Ainokura a few years before, which was very nice).
I did love however Hirayu onsen, but it helps to be a total sucker for rotenburo (outside onsen)

I'm also "meh" about Takayama. I enjoyed strolling the little (is it 9 street, or 9 blocks, maybe?) grid of old streets, but that's easily done in an hour or so. The morning market was interesting, but not exactly exclusive to Takayama.

The beef was good, and I remember beef nigiri from a street shopfront, and a good beef meal in a (?former, or current?) sake brewery, with a good modern Japanese print shop nearby, where we bought a lovely woodblock print.

I also remember the festival float museum, which I thought was very interesting and well-presented.

I'd spend a happy 24 hours there, but it's maybe more of a "happy-to-pass-through" place than a "must see destination" for me. YMMV...

Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it isnt a big place/much to do but we intend to use it more as a convenient base to see other things - shirikawago, hida village, kamikochi (main reason).

all those 3 towns are very small, that means when you get out of the bus / train it is very likely that your hotel is in next surroundings. so switching hotels it not a big problem, even if you have luggage. even if you come before your checkin time all hotels would for sure keep your luggage while you move around.

also i agree with the others that takayama is highly overrated (ok, meat is really one of the best in japan), while matsomoto is highly underrated (best castle of japan, and a lot of cool art museum (e.g.https://goo.gl/maps/upHTD1xEphZT4ipTA))

if your main concern are those top roofed houses, you will find them already in takayama in the Hida Folk Village - which is much less touristic than the shirgawa go and will save you a lot of time (see https://goo.gl/maps/XEAEjjNsRniCwPTYA). In hirayu you will also find such houses and even with onsen (see https://goo.gl/maps/H9VddmFDEmENpdU58)

In that case, would hirayu be a good place to stay for all 3 nights? Peaceful, easy to get to takayama /matsumoto for a day, and same with kamikochi? Is there some nice short walks to do directly from hariyu? That will help keep us occupied if it is smaller than takayama/matsumoto :)

there is the Shinhotaka Ropeway, which will bring you on the mountain that you see from
the other side when you are in kamikochi (see https://goo.gl/maps/sZtoxjezjJwt61nq9)

there are some wonderful hotels, e.g. this one https://goo.gl/maps/bH9qCJoHxT7ddPJ97 which even has a swing in the onsen or this https://goo.gl/maps/An1R4CmGEJrR4Bhd6 - and some very great onsen near (e.g. https://goo.gl/maps/VzSjqWswQYoswnGW6)

however: my point was NOT to stay 3 days in one place, even not in hirayu. move around. each of those places is just perfect for one night but not more. (besides hirayu would NOT be a good base since buses are not go very often. )

ps: if you really, really want to be only in one location for sleeping then i would stay in takayama like you indentend from the beginning. it will be the best hub for this area, since all connections go from there

Understood :) if i did decide to do a night in hirayu just to mix things up, would this best to do the night before kamikochi to make it easy to get there? In terms of getting back to tokyo, is it easier from takayama or hariyu?

6 of one and a half dozen of the other, I think.

Takayama to Toyama by wideview Hida, then shinkansen to Tokyo. If you want a prettier but longer journey, Takayama to Nagoya, shinkansen ro tokyo.

Hirayu bus to Matsumoto, train to Tokyo (pretty-ish journey) or Hirayu bus to Matsumoto, train the Nagano and shinkansen to Tokyo.

I would probably go via Matsumoto and visit the castle while I was there, then train direct to Tokyo except that if I was in the area, I would stay a night at Karuizawa and that would mean training on to Nagano then shinkansen to Karuizawa, for a night or so before going to Tokyo.

i would do it like this (Will be the most scenic route):

* takayama (daytrip in the morning to shiragawa go or do there for the hida village) => move on to hirayu
* hirayu (dayto to kamikochi (see timetables here: https://www.nouhibus.co.jp/route_bus/kamikochi-line-en/) (maybe stay there another night instead of matsumoto)
* matsumoto (see timtable here: https://www.nouhibus.co.jp/highwaybus/matsumoto_en/
* back to tokyo by train

so i wouldnt go over nagano. only negative on the above route is that it is not covered by the jr pass between takayama and matsumoto (since you need to use bus - but if oyu want to go to kamikochi then you have this problem anyhow)

Thank you! I havent got onto the logistics of train costs yet but with the JR pass price increase, am i likely to need to purchase one? My main journeys will be tokyo to kyoto, kyoto to osaka, kyoto to takayama area and then back to tokyo. I will also do daytrips to kamakura, nikko, fuji five lakes so would you suggest i just buy trains individually rather than a JR pass? The drawback is not being able to just jumpnon any train and having to aim for specific train times i guess - do these vary in price depending on when you book, are routes a consistent price regardless? Thanks once again for the very helpful continued responses!

Even without the price increase, I'm not sure the JR pass would pay off for your trip.

Takayama: I spent 3 nights there, 2 on my way to Shirakawago/Kanazawa, 1 before going to Kamikochi, but only one day in Takayama itself. The town is pretty and relaxing! There were not many visitors at all in November, which probably helped. The beef was indeed very tasty, but the amount of fat made me sick for a whole afternoon xD (no regrets)

Kamikochi is doable as a day trip but we stayed one night in Hirayu (just as LikeBike, I, love rotenburos).
Day 1: Takayama > bus> Hirayu (leave bags at a coin locker) > bus > Kamikochi (visit & hike) > bus > Hirayu (1 night)
Day 2: Hirayu > bus > Matsumoto (drop bags at the hotel, visit, 1 night)

It's also less expensive that way, compared to backtracking to Takayama. The only issue is that you won't be able to pick the day with the best weather to visit Kamikochi.

Kawaguchiko & Hakone: you could save on transportation cost (and time!) by visiting them on your way to Kyoto, instead of doing day trips. Eg: Tokyo > Kawaguchiko (1 night) > Hakone (1 night) > Kyoto. Send your suitcases from Tokyo to Kyoto, if needed.

thanks - another consideration may be that hirayu onsen doesn't seem to have many accomodation options and likely prices will be higher. I would love to do a night there but for ease it may have to be takayama for 3. What would be the best (cheapest + easiest) way back to tokyo? via toyama or matsumoto?

You can check using Jordain but I would guess Matsumoto as it isnt shinkansen, also buses are usually cheaper.

hirayu has LOOOOTs of accomodations.
you maybe just use the wrong booking sites (many of them are not listed on booking.com or hotels.com).

if you are unable to use the japanese booking sites i recommend that you simply use google maps and then book directly there from their webpage.

check out for example https://www.hirayunomori.co.jp/en/ which until now always had room (at least for me) and is very affordable (it may not be the best of the best hotels, but onsen are great and price / value is good)

PS: and do you know there are direct busses from hirayu to tokyo (they go directly without almost any stop and are the fastest and cheapest option)

use google maps directions to let them be shown to you or check this website:
https://www.keio-bus.com

but in my opinion you should go over matsumoto - just because you should visit it.
thank me later :-)
(route: hirayu => bus to matsumoto (stop there to visit) => train to nagano => train to tokyo)