Autumn leaves peak in Kyoto 2023

Konnichiwa, we will be travelling around Japan from late November till late December. The official meterological autumn leaves peak forecast has the forecast peak for red leaves in Kyoto as 11 December, while this great website says 'the peak' is 'late November'.
Is this website's 'peak' referring to the overall best time (for yellow, orange and red leaves collectively) rather than the peak for red leaves?
I'm just a bit confused!
We have a bit of flexibility in terms of when we can go to Kyoto, but it's good to have some rough ideas.
Any advice appreciated !

I find a forecast of December for Kyoto highly unlikely. I've been working my way south from Aomori over the past week and Nagano was great yesterday (Takayama today). Leaf colour is already starting to change in Kyoto and I am still expecting nice colours when I am there next week and again towards the end of the month. Koyo in Kyoto in December - not in my experience.
Check https://tenki.jp/kouyou/

I think it is peak for red if the forecast is accurate

thanks for the comments. The official forecast is in the link below. Peak *red* leaves seem to usually be late November / early December in Kyoto, but given the very long and very hot summer this year 11 December for peak red leaves in Kyoto sounds plausible? Noting it's only a forecast! Early December seems the best bet though, I think. I have heard that the leaves can still be quite good for up to a week after peak, does that sound right?

https://n-kishou.com/corp/news-contents/autumn/index_en.html

to Matt P
the site you cited is unknown (unfamous) private company.
the site cited by JapanCustomTours is better.

Thanks for the thread, we will be in Nara next week and Kyoto the week after, looks like good timing!

To predict Osaka on 12/3 sounds reasonable, but to predict nearby Kyoto to be 10 days behind nearby Osaka is either a typing mistake or pure nonsense!

Even as of now, the colors are approaching the peak in a few places in Kyoto, and the peak will likely occur in the last third of November:
https://www.kyoto.travel/en/autumnleaves/index.html

Please note that due to the hot summer and above average temperatures many trees (such as maples) have been distressed this year and dropping leaves early (and also dropping limbs). The above average temps might have lead to a later changing of colour "if" the trees were in good health, but the expert reports I have seen indicate this is not the case.
Given the foliage I have seen the past two weeks and what I will observe in the next few days (Hiroshima today, Kyoto next week), I still find the idea of December for peak colour highly unlikely.

The same website has a more detailed prediction for various spots within and around Kyoto. There is a wide variation in the dates.

https://s.n-kishou.co.jp/w/sp/koyo/koyo_yosou_spot.html?&ba=26

Just as an update, one of the locations I was looking forward to (Momijidani Park on Miyajima) has virtually no autumn colour this year because all the leaves have already dropped. When in the same spot three weeks ago the trees were vibrant and green. Went from that to bare branches. I am expecting similar in many Kyoto spots today/tomorrow.

Seems the very hot summer and drought this year has caused the same problem in the US. "The trees around here all lost their leaves before they changed colour".

https://www.ft.com/content/a4e65122-7185-4e4f-9e4b-bd2583b84455

Agreed. The foliage in momijidani park is really sparse and less vibrant this year.

Now in Kyoto and more of the same. I was observing that the leaves on many maples are still green at a site I visited yesterday, but others have dead leaves ready to fall. No colour, straight from green to black/brown and then onto the ground.

Thank you for the update Japan Custom Tours. What percentage of the trees are affected in Kyoto?

According to an online update I just saw that covers a large number of Kyoto locations, it�fs very mixed. Some areas peaked or nearing peak, others still green leaves.

I think the wonderful Raina is doing a Kyoto update today!

Visited a few spots around Kyoto yesterday (and will do some more today), and other than ginkyo trees, as far as I'm concerned the koyo season is a write-off for the second half of November. Green maples going to bare trees is not a good season. While some spots where trees are not distressed exist, there are simply going to be a lot of disappointed visitors.

Thank you JapanCustomTours.

Never mind, there are more than enough magnificent splendours to make up for underwhelming autumn leaves.

One of the spots I visited yesterday was Kodai-ji (and went past Entoku-in). In the past, it has been a location with reliable autumn colours, partly because it has a selection of maples that change on a different time-scale to many other places. While most of the maples were exhibiting the same green to bare style, there were a couple of trees that had some nice colour, but just a couple. As a hugely popular place for the evening illuminations, I expect they will as disappointed as their visitors. I did laugh when I saw their posters promoting the illumination until Dec 10th.